In this episode, I would like to talk about why people quit kendo. Is it because they realise that kendo was not for them? Is it because of instructors? Have you ever thought quitting kendo? Please share your thoughts. I said “Episode 54” in the episode, but it is wrong 🙂 Sorry about that!
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Dear Sensei
thank you very much for this podcast
please forgive me if I’m rude
I’m now 53 years old, I practice karate Shotoksn for more than 20 years,
Iaido for more than 12 years, 4 years in Kenjutsu and Kendo 4 years.
actually I practice Iaido and Kendo
You are a very good teacher, there id nothing wrong with the way you practice, share and teach Kendo
Kendo is not a sport like karate, and that’s one of the reason people don’t like or understand kendo
Kendo is not an anime, and neither a way of self defense
Kendo belongs to Bushido
Kendo is a way of life
The other reason why people quite kendo is Shikai, you wrote a wonderful article
prople are like the waves in the ocean and it must be so, only a few stays and begin this hard way of training and experience the large road of Kendo, it begins with etiquette and ends with etiquette.
To understand Kendo firstly you must empty your cup and receive the new instructions, if you do not have the right purpose your kendo stuck
Don’t worry if you live in Indiana and you see the same faces, Kendo is a way of life as you always say: Kendo for Life
thank you very much for your work and enthusiasm, Keep going!!!
Thank you very much!
When people leave, I always think, “I couldn’t show them what kendo really is.” So I always think how I can give them a reason to stay.
But again that is up to them. And when they don’t see what they want to do, they will leave anyway.
It is hard. Yes, it is because it is a way of life 🙂
A lot of people who practice karate thinks its a way of life too. I think karate in the US is too commercialized. Not many dojos teach traditional karate in a traditional way that would be comparable to kendo. Karate and other self defense type dojos are all over the place but not kendo. I have done karate for years but at 60 I’m doing kendo now. I checked around and it appears that kendo is a not-for-profit endeavor. There are no kendo dojos per so. All the ones I know are in Japanese cultural centers or Buddhist churches where a gym is rented.a few nights a week, and all the instructors are volunteers, precisely because it is a way of life for them. There’s money to be made in karate and the like so its gotten very commercialized over the years and you see dojos opening up with a nidan (or even shodan) as instructor so the quality is low.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The problem in commercializing martial arts is that some instructors teach what their students want to learn, not what they NEED to know.
Basically, they need to satisfy their students, i.e. customers.
I really want some kendo sensei can dedicate their time to instruct their students ALL THE TIME by living off kendo. We need some people like that.
That is my humble opinion.
Thanks!
As soon as I read this title (on Google Plus) a thought from the tradition of Soto Zen came to mind, probably because I know you have the master’s generous and skillful consideration of the student’s well being first and foremost. (Upaya, yes?)
As is so often true with things Zen, so simple! so hard to convey! So I will spare you my clumsy / inept / over-long attempt at a meaningful essay.
What if we change 1 word?
Why did X quit (either KenDo or Zen)? why did Y leave in defeat? why did Z abandon it? why did J set it aside for an indeterminate period of time?
The point is how we relate to our experience of this very moment, no?
So … a change of course … I can imagine 42,000 Buddhas cheering in appreciation! 🙂
__{*}__
–KC:
p.s. the “website” link I included is from 2007, the penultimate post on one of the blogs that then went dusty.
Thank you very much!
It is true what you said, “so simple so hard to convey”.
I heard from one of my friends, a nun, that even they try to apply many different ways to reach people.
It is not because they want more members but it is to show the teachings of Buddhism.
Just a touch of it. Just a touch.
I think I really think to start thinking how we can show a touch of kendo in different ways.
Now I have to think out of the box, really really away from the box!
Aside from old age or injury / illness, the only reasons I could think of are economic ones: time, money, work commitments. Otherwise, there is no reason to quit.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Maybe sensei can be a reason?
I’m not sure I can give any insight into why people as a whole quite kendo, I think the reasons are often too individual to make any broad statements. I think I can however say something about why people choose to stay.
Good teaching helps but most of all I think that people stay at kendo and commit for the long term because of the community of people they find by practicing. If that is a community which is helpful and supportive, where people are made to feel welcomed regardless of how experienced they are then they are more likely to stay.
I myself took an 8 month break from Kendo that ended about a year ago, not because I didn’t enjoy kendo, but because of the atmosphere at the club I had been attending. I started again because I found a club where I felt welcomed and part of a community. However as I was experienced, I knew that there were more supportive dojos out there. If I had been a beginner I might have thought “This is what all kendo people are like” and stopped altogether.
To this end, I have always made it a particular priority to be welcoming and friendly to new members, especially beginners. Kendo is hard work and I think many beginners would be more willing and able to push through the low points if they felt supported by their seniors.
As a female kendoka, I think it is particularly important that new women who join are made to feel welcome. It takes quite a strong personality to be comfortable as a woman in such a male dominated field as kendo. As such, I go out of my way to take new women under my wing and I hope this has helped them persevere.
Basically my point is that what goes on around and outside the dojo is as important as what goes on inside it. Do you all practice kendo and then go home or do you go for a drink or a meal? Do established members make a point of introducing themselves and talking to new joiners? Are seniors willing to take the time to answer questions and show beginners how to do things? Are senior members willing to listen if beginners have concerns or worries? If your club does do these things, then people are more likely to stay.
Thank you for your great input. I agree with the atmosphere of the dojo/members playing a great role to keep the students longer.
After all, it is us, people, who share the knowledge of kendo. If we act bad, no one wants to do kendo.
Thanks, Oniyuri!
I practiced Kendo about 2 years (an aggregate total of 3 years if you count some hiatus in between). Wore my first bogu in my second year, and been practicing at least 1 time a week for the full 2 years.
I love Kendo, I love its main concept and I respect Kendo overall.
However, at the same time, I am a casual practitioner; meaning that unlike most Kendoka whom i thought is very dedicated and determined in their way of Kendo, I am your typical beginner Kendoka who was still figuring out whether Kendo was right for me.
I will share my perspective why I quit Kendo; however, before explaining further I would like to say upfront that it is definitely not because of Sensei because all of the Seniors/Sensei in Kendo were very helpful to me and in fact spend their valuable time in guiding me! Without them I would have quit on my second month.
To summarize:
1. Kendo is not Beginner-Friendly
The amount of practice and hurdle before you wear bogu (it took me more than 1 year) was quite substantial. 80% of my other beginner-colleague quit because they feel they are not progressing because of the repeated tasks they do daily.
Different Sensei also gives different feedback; so for example some of the movemnet that we did “good” according to the last week Sensei, was heavily criticized by another Sensei another week. Vice Versa.
This further discourage the beginner and made them think they are not “fit” for Kendo.
2. Gap in Kendoka
Majority of Kendoka actually are experienced. The Mode of Kendoka has more Dan holder than Kyu holder.
This is good because as Kyu Kendoka, you have stronger opponent to spar and improve on.
At the same time, during jigeiko the gap is becoming more and more obvious.
Also some of the menu for the keiko may be more geared to the Dan holder.
3. Community Matters
This is related to the second one, and I think each community is different.
But as Sensei state in your podcast, Kendo itself is still a small and strong community; at the same time it is very limited choice on which Kendo you can go.
Being a human it is natural to sometimes when you “do not fit” into the community because as a beginner you have only spent few months to few years bonding with the Senpais and Senseis, whereby the rest of the Kendoka may have gone through a lot of deeper bonding together.
It is either you fit inside or don’t.
4. Opportunity Cost to Practice Kendo is high (not Money nor financial)
This may be unique to my location as the closest Kendo Dojo is about 40-50 minutes of Drive (without traffic jam). The practice time sometimes coincide with other opportunity such as “Family Time”, “Entertainment Time”,etc.
Most Kendoka practice very regularly at minimum of 3 times a week; even during holidays (short and long).
For beginner / casual practitioner this means we have to sacrifice either family time or other potential activity to just keep up with the other Kendoka.
(Minimum I practice at minimum 3-4 hours per week, sometimes more than that).
To practice just 1-2 times per week is not enough; as Gap between beginners and experienced are getting wider and wider, to catch up the beginner has to practice at least 3 times a week or more.
If you can afford to dedicate your life to Kendo that may make sense; however for more casual practitioner like me, dedicating more than 1 time per week is very expensive.
This last point actually echoes my first point and create a loop cycle whereby the Kendoka Practitioners are only limited to those who are very dedicated and the population gap between beginners and experienced Kendoka will grow even wider.
So whose fault is this? I won’t point fingers to any parties but if I have to, it is mostly because the current younger millenials (such as myself) has less dedication due to more practical options that require less time and cost to practice.
And I think Kendo is fine the way it is as it will stay true to the traditional core of the principle; attracting only those who believe on those principles and possess high dedication.
As Sensei accurately states in the podcast, I think as beginners we possess high interest to Kendo initially due to many circumstances (may be from anime, interest in the Budo culture, interest in Japan culture itself). However, converting this interest to high dedication requires Kendo to jeopardize its own core principle which I think would not be worth to pursue.
In conclusion, I think its normal for many people to quit Kendo because its practice is not geared towards the mass market. And it is actually no one’s fault.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts with us! It’s very informative.
80% of your beginner-colleague quit… I think it is about right. And that’s what I’m tackling.
I really appreciate your input. Thank you!
I train Kendo for one and half mounth and i rented a first bogufrom the club because i have no money to buy it and i am now trying to find myself in this. Last training, first time in bogu i became disssapointed. I cannot coordinate movement and attacks, like i was not that person without bogu who do all that things properly (at elast sensai said that). Also every hit on men hurts badly. And what is worst, i felt claustrophobic in men and i was in panic and i couldnt concetrate. I don’t know what to do, and how to fight that problem.
Thanks for sharing your experience here. Sorry to hear what you experienced. Now it is very normal that you feel uncoordinated in bogu on. Everyone does for the first time
It is so different with and without armour on. You need to get used to it. And especially in someone else’s bogu, it has already the previous person’s “shape” so it makes it harder.
I don’t know about claustrophobic feelings. I am not a doctor so I cannot give you any advice. You might want to see a doctor or you can get used to it. But again I’m not a doctor so I don’t know it is something that you can get used to.
Sorry that I cannot give you any good advice.
I now do kendo for only 3,5 years, I reached shodan at December 2018 in the Netherlands and we as well experience people quitting and our dojo isn´t that old yet.
I started at our dojo when there were only 4-6 members, and I have seen many members come and go. For many different reasons. I also think it is because of a little bit of the mentality here, kendo is not well known, to outsiders it’s “just” a sport where you hit people with a stick.
Due to people’s busy lives it is hard for them to really get into kendo and experience kendo to the fullest. School/parents has allot of influence, job and family has allot of influence as well and for many people these things have priority over kendo, and with 1 practice a week, you could maintain your kendo, but growing in kendo with 1 practice a week will take longer and that could result in progression at some point.
Also, the point of switching to bogu is a crucial moment. We get taught good basic kihon for half a year, and then you slowly go into bogu, and basically what happens is, you have to start again at 0, you get hit, you could get hit hard by beginners or your senpai, you really have to get used to that new situation, if you hold your shinai wrong, kote will hurt, and if it does, you know you hold your shinai wrong or if you get hit on the back of your head 2 things could be wrong, you are not facing your partner and have your head tilted down, or your partner has problems with performing a well-executed men.
You are wearing a sort of armor and the movement whilst wearing this will be weird, your coordination will be off. People have to tell themselves “this will pass, it will be better!”.
There are so many reasons people could quit and its always a shame. I also have been thinking how to change people’s minds, and how to motivate people. We do social activities, we do some running with the dojo, we do workshops and demos as a dojo, and it’s always with the same few people, so motivating people and such, is really hard.
I myself however have been motivated, I saw our dojo was small, but I loved kendo the moment I stepped into the dojo, and I was really slow and bad and had allot of problems learning certain things like fumikomi, and thanks to a few tips of you sensei I managed to get better and better at it, but I think it is also a “self” issue.
If you do not set goals in kendo and you do not see the reason for doing kendo, kendo will become merely a time consumption then a way of life, and if it becomes a way of life, balancing this with your life is or could be very difficult even more so if your environment doesn’t get it.
Anyway we have great young senpai that motivate me and another handful of members to do all we can, to reach our goals, like they are reaching their own goals. My senpai that teach us, both have gone to IBU and have ambitions and goals, and that attitude passes on to other members of the dojo, including me, so you also have to set your own mind to it.
Kendo like everybody tells me, has no shortcut, it will go with ups and downs and some more, and sometimes you just have to visit other dojo and have keiko with other kendoka and sensei in order to grow.
I have seen all old members of our dojo quit due to personal reasons, and I am now senpai, and it’s a bloody tough role, I try to do well at tournaments with my senpai, I try to visit other dojo with my senpai and we invite other members to do so as well, not only for ourselves but also to try motivate others and give others opportunity to grow as well, by trying to be a good kohai for my senpai, motivated, driven, never quitting and going forward towards my goals and listening to them. I hope to motivate my kohai.
I am now 37, started kendo fairly late, and still have goals to reach national team practice, and become a good competition to national members =D and eventually to pass down the teaching of my senpai to other kendoka. Oops I went on a bit much sorry sensei!
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Motivating others is very hard. Words don’t do much. Showing doesn’t work much either.
I think we constantly motivate people with words and actions.
Sometimes work, sometimes don’t.
It’s just like kendo. We gotta keep trying 😀